The latest issue of The Nation — a double-issue on the subject of utopias — features a sprawling cover illustration by Michael DeForge. A group of smiling people are making art, making dinner, making out. Throughout it all is the constant presence of technology. It’s a fraught subject for any artist, but DeForge especially, whose work so often touches on science-fiction and politics. A pioneering — and prolific — cartoonist, DeForge has released eleven books over the course of the past decade, culminating with the short story collection, Heaven, No Hell. DeForge joined us to discuss the art in the era of Trump and Covid-19, the inevitability of writing about politics and the downsides of technology.